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CARLSON:  Welcome back.  According to my next guest, the truth is out there.  Actually up there, with our neighbor to the north, Canada.

A former Canadian government official is warning we may be on the verge of intergalactic war, saying, quote, “The Bush administration has finally agreed to let the military build a forward base on the moon, which will put them in a better position to keep track of the comings and goings of visitors from space and to shoot at them if they so decide,” end quote.

Paul Hellyer is a former minister of defense and deputy prime minister of the country of Canada.  He joins us now from Toronto. Mr. Hellyer, thanks a lot for coming on. 

PAUL HELLYER, FORMER DEFENSE MINISTER AND DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER,

CANADA:  Not at all, it‘s a pleasure. 

CARLSON:  Now, you were the minister of defense of Canada.  When you autopsied that position, I believe, under Prime Minister Lester Pearson, did you come across any classified information that suggested UFO‘s were real?

HELLYER:  No, not really.  We got regular reports that showed that some of them were, in fact, unidentified.  Some of the sightings could not be explained as natural phenomenon, but nothing more than that. 

CARLSON:  Well, as you know, there‘s been this debate for years over whether or not they are real.  Most people don‘t think they are real, or most people at least are hesitant to say they believe they are real in public.  What convinced you they do, in fact, exist?

HELLYER:  Well, for the last two or three years, I have been looking at the evidence, and assessing it, much as I guess a judge would.  And trying to determine who was telling the truth and who wasn‘t.  And I finally concluded, especially after reading a book called “The Day After Roswell,” written by Colonel Philip Corso, that unidentified flying objects are, in fact real.  As real as the airplanes flying over your head, and that there has been a monumental cover-up for more than half a century.

This is after, you know, looking at a lot of evidence and trying to discern who was telling the truth and who wasn‘t.  And I have concluded unequivocally that the people, who claim that they have either seen UFO‘s or have seen classified documents about UFO‘s or have seen wreckage from the crash at Roswell, on or about July 4, 1947, are the ones telling the truth.  And consequently, I am basing my policy considerations on that. 

CARLSON:  Where did you come across this information that the Bush administration is building a forward base on the moon, and why would they do that?  And why would they keep it from the public?

HELLYER:  Well, to answer your second question first, I don‘t know. 

That is the reason I am raising the question, is to see why they are. 

CARLSON:  Well how do you—how do you—that‘s an awfully specific claim.  I haven‘t read it in the “New York Times.” Doesn‘t mean it‘s not true, doesn‘t mean you‘re wrong, but I am interested to know why you think that. 

HELLYER:  Well, because this was forecasted in Colonel Corso‘s book.  They were wanting to build a base on the moon, as far back as 1964.  And General Arthur Trudeau (ph) -- same name as one of my bosses—was very determined to build a forward base on the moon.  And prepared all of the specifications necessary for it, and the blueprints, and so on. 

CARLSON:  Well, is it—pardon me.  I don‘t mean to interrupt you, but doesn‘t this make sense? I mean, if, in fact, there are extraterrestrials and they are buzzing our planet, why wouldn‘t we want to take steps to defend ourselves from them should they turn hostile?

HELLYER:  Well, I think the critical question is whether or not they are hostile.  You see, when they were first—when the crash first occurred, General Nathan Twining (ph) later became the... 

CARLSON:  In Roswell? 

HELLYER:  Yes, after that crash occurred, he declared that they were enemy aliens.  Now, there‘s no evidence, that I have seen, that would really convince me that they are, in fact, you know enemy.

And what I would like to know is whether that classification of enemy aliens still exists or whether it doesn‘t, and if it exists, what the evidence is on which the United States government bases its conclusions.  I think that‘s tremendously important. 

CARLSON:  I think that‘s an entirely fair question.  Now, finally, you laid out these views in September of this year at a speech at the University of Toronto, and according to the news report I have of the speech, your address, quote, “ended with a standing ovation.”

And that implies, I think, that your views are commonplace in Canada.  They are a minority view here, distinct minority view.  Do you think most Canadians believe that there is a forward base under construction on the Moon and that aliens are buzzing the earth?

HELLYER:  No, absolutely not.  Most of them are skeptics.  Most of them haven‘t spent much time researching the subject, and so they‘re, I think, the average here would be very similar to the average American.  And I am hoping that, maybe, we can persuade the Canadian Senate to hold hearings and listen to some of the 400 witnesses that your Dr. Steven—what‘s his name?  Oh, Greer, Dr. Steven Greer, has compiled, and hear them, and, you know, make up their minds as to whether or not there is a real threat.

CARLSON:  All right.

HELLYER:    And, maybe, this would be just enough to push the American government, the U.S. Congress or Senate, into holding its own hearings, and then getting the United States government finally to come clean and tell us what they are worried about. 

CARLSON:  OK.  Canada‘s former minister of defense, Paul Hellyer.  If you are right, history will record you as a visionary.  If you are wrong, well, I‘m glad you came on anyway.  Thank you. 

HELLYER:  It‘s a pleasure. 

CARLSON:  Still ahead on “The Situation,” if you think you drink a lot of coffee, prepare to be humbled. The man on a mission to visit every single Starbucks on earth is visiting us here in the studio.  He‘s a little caffeinated.  He‘s ready to tell us how it‘s going.  Stay tuned.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CARLSON:  Welcome back.  Plato once said, “wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something.” 

Joining me now from Las Vegas, a man who always has something to say, the Outsider, from ESPN radio and HBO boxing—you can catch him in “Rocky VI,” opening soon, Max Kellerman. 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10439223 - Written transcript

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